We have been unable to hear and discuss everyone's thoughts and opinions. Here is your opportunity. Please post a combination of three comments about "The General Prologue" and "The Wife of Bath's Prologue." Comments = observation, question, and general commentary. For example, Q: What type of tale do you think The Pardoner will tell? GC: I think Chaucer was extremely candid with his tales, and I think his tales are fresh and entertaining. I like when people tell it like it is and are able to call a spade a spade. O: I think Chaucer witnessed (met) some pretty shady and morally degenerate people in his day. I wonder if the view he provides was more of the norm rather than rare cases? Q: I wonder why Chaucer allowed, or spent, so much time on the Wife of Bath. Do you think she was someone special to him? Your post should be about the same in length as my example above. Please respond to at least three people, and you may respond to more. You do not have to respond to all of the comments each person posts - pick and choose. All initial comments need to be posted by Wednesday night at the latest. All responses must be posted by Thursday night.
57 Comments
Sarah
11/10/2015 10:29:54 am
GC: Chaucer writes "The General Prologue" with enough information about each character to infer about the life of each pilgrim. These details allow for the projection of which characters will clash, and which ones will get along well. In "The Canterbury Tales" there are so many characters that it there are many possible outcomes. Chaucer keeps you guessing.
Reply
Nora
11/10/2015 09:25:28 pm
I guessed what you guessed! I think the wife in the story that she tells represents herself, and she is saying that even if she may be old she is very wise, and can still please a man. I think the story reflects her life in a way.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/11/2015 08:32:44 am
I think the Wife is saying that she is wise, and although she is old, she is just like a young woman. This old, ugly woman turns to a beautiful young lady when she is treated right. This is how the Wife sees herself.
Reply
Lauren Collins
11/11/2015 05:27:53 pm
I do believe that the Wife is represented within the story she tells. I picked up on the fact that the wife in the tale was the Wife's outlet to expressing her views on a woman's sovereignty and independence. Now that you mention it, I do agree that the wife is saying she is more knowledgeable than most, considering she has had more husbands than usual. She's lived and learned with age through each of her husbands. However, I do not think she feels too old.
Reply
Hannah Ross
11/12/2015 07:22:42 am
I completely agree with you observation about the summoner and the pardoner. Not only do they have similar character descriptions, but they also both have experience with one another, I would assume that their tales would connect in one way or another.
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
11/12/2015 07:45:26 am
In my notes I said that the old lady represented her because she knew the "remedy" to her husband's unhappiness. In "The Prologue" it said that she knew, "the remedies for love's mischances". The old lady's remedy was to become young, beautiful, and loyal.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
11/12/2015 08:15:18 am
When I read the Wife of Bath's Tale I thought that the old woman did symbolize the Wife because she is mean and unattractive when she is not in control. As soon as the Knight gave her control in the relationship she became young and beautiful. This shows that once the Wife gets what she wants she is no longer hideous or hard to get along with.
Reply
Kristen Denny
11/12/2015 08:12:03 pm
The wife of Bath was older in the story and was claiming she was wiser than most. Her experience with her five husbands shows this. Although she has grown wise in time, maybe she was seeking youthful men to make her feel younger. In this way maybe it helped to keep her young as she was growing older.
Reply
Destiny
11/20/2015 10:23:00 am
I feel like the wife represents not only herself but all older women. Since she is older she has more experience than most, especially when it comes to taking care of a man. She has dealt with man different types of men and she knows how to handle and manipulate them.
Reply
Elizabeth
11/10/2015 02:55:47 pm
O: It isn't surprising that the Wife of Bath's Tale states that the thing women desire most is to be in control of relationships since the Wife herself lives that way. However, it would be interesting to know if there were many women during the Middle Ages that felt the same way as the Wife of Bath and if there were many women that were as confident and outspoken as she.
Reply
Nora
11/10/2015 09:23:37 pm
I think the Wife of Bath really could be religious enough to believe that a person of the church wouldn't be that corrupt. Or perhaps she just wants other people to believe exactly that, so she chose to use a knight instead. Perhaps the idea of a Knight falling from grace is just more "romantic" than someone from the church.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/11/2015 08:26:22 am
I think that the wife is a very intelligent woman and knows how men work. If she told the story with a religious character, people would become defensive of the attack on their religion and refuse to hear the moral behind the story. I think the Wife is using this story to teach a lesson, not attack a group.
Reply
Hannah Ross
11/11/2015 06:11:46 pm
In response to your question, maybe she uses the knight within her story instead of a religious figure because that has been her own personal experience. Chaucer intended these tales to be a reflection of medieval life, so that may have been a very well known part of society in that time, knights took advantage of women. Also, a knight should protect women, so by making him harm a woman Chaucer makes the knight almost a complete contradiction to his purpose.
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
11/12/2015 07:48:38 am
I figured that the Parson would become corrupt, however it would make sense for him to try and change the others for good. I know that The Wife of Bath is bold and does what she wants. I feel that if more women were like her and did not let their husbands boss them around as much, women could have had more rights and respect sooner. However this must have not been the case.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
11/12/2015 08:02:25 am
I think many women of that time period were probably controlling like the Wife but I believe they were not as outspoken as her. I think she is similar to the feminist today. Many people have the same beliefs as feminist but they are not as outspoken as a true feminist is.
Reply
Sarah
11/12/2015 03:11:16 pm
Based off of your O, I wonder if she was a minority among women---is that why she had 5 husbands? Or if she was just the mouthpiece of most women? Why hadn't she got in trouble for it, if it was so against the grain? You've brought so many more questions to my mind now!
Reply
Kristen Denny
11/12/2015 08:16:29 pm
It amazed me that she acted out against one of her husbands the way she did. The time I am referencing is when she ripped pages out of a book of his and he hit her knocking her partially deaf. I wonder if this was the way other men in society treated their wives if they "got out of line" in relation to medieval standards between a man and a woman. Seeing this as the representation of a relationship in the medieval time period, it seems rather harsh to not let a woman have a more prominent role.
Reply
Nora Skinner
11/10/2015 09:20:25 pm
O: I think that the Wife of Bath is a feminist icon. I do not mean that she is a misanthrope, or hates families, is a lesbian...blah, blah, blah. I simply mean that she is a strong woman that knows what she wants from life. She is not willing to let what people think about her stop her from living her life. People undoubtedly judge her for having five husbands, but she does not let that bother her. She will not be controlled by a man; she knows her worth and knows that her promiscuity does not devalue her as a person.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/11/2015 08:17:51 am
I agree with you. She is advocating in this group of mainly males (and males very fond of taking advantage of women), that women want respect and control. She is confident, independent and a female activist.
Reply
Hannah Ross
11/12/2015 07:28:09 am
I think she cares about her appearance just for the sake of how others perceive her. She wants others to think highly of her, and to do that she must be beautiful and wealthy, in her own opinion. We all know that she could garner respect by being genuine and holy, but as foster would say characters are not real. She must have this flaw in perception in order for her character to be formed.
Reply
Elizabeth
11/12/2015 02:28:02 pm
Building off of what Hannah said, the Prioress most likely is the way she is because she is so worried about what others think of her. Humans throughout history have always been concerned with how others think of them, and this is largely due to the fact that people want to be accepted. The Prioress may not have very much self-confidence and believes that she must compensate by acting like she is better than she is.
Reply
Sarah
11/12/2015 03:14:51 pm
In addressing your Q, I'm willing to be that something happened in the Prioress's childhood that has contributed to her vanity. Obviously, she is a nun--and a high ranking one-- so she knows all about humility, yet there is still a drive to be above her rank. She has a major internal conflict to be able to be a vain nun--that just doesn't work.
Reply
Lauren Collins
11/12/2015 03:38:03 pm
Your observation is very accurate. She seems to resemble the modern female or a feminist. She believes in a sort of equality for women. The Wife sees women as their own sovereign entities and desires to be independent. This idea really stands out in the tale when she uses the knight and his wife to exemplify this idea. Page 286 sums up the point when the knight explains what a lady desires in a man.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/11/2015 08:15:21 am
GC: Obviously the Wife of Bath is labeled as sexual and only concerned with her love affairs. With so many sexual innuendos in her prologue, it is quite shocking that her tale is of a story with a great moral. I think the Wife sees herself as that older woman always giving to men and it seems she only does it to fulfill her desires. In reality, she just wants to be loved, cared for, and treated with respect.
Reply
Lauren Collins
11/11/2015 05:02:56 pm
O: In "The Wife of Bath's Prologue" the Wife uses allusions such as King Solomon, Abraham, and Jacob to justify the idea of multiple marriages. Each of these references tie back to religious backgrounds, and therefore the Wife is supporting her philosophy. She loves the idea of marriage, as the prologue eludes, and may be taking a pilgrimage for another marriage.
Reply
Elizabeth
11/12/2015 02:32:52 pm
I definitely agree about certain characters fabricating tales to meet the Host's guidelines. The Summoner and Pardoner especially break all sorts of moral and societal rules, as they lack all the qualities of genuine people of the church and engage in sodomy. In order to tell a tale with a moral acceptable by those on the pilgrimage, as well as the general literate public of the Middle Ages, the Summoner and the Pardoner would have to avoid any truthful dealings from their lives.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 09:34:57 am
I think she does represent herself in her tale. She is often older than her lovers but feels that with the proper treatment, she can be as young, loving, and beautiful as the young women. She is just advocating to be treated right, and then she will reward.
Reply
Destiny
11/20/2015 03:32:37 pm
I do think the wife in the tale is representative of The Wife of Bath. She knows how to act her age, but she also knows how to act young. The wife in the tale is after secret control and so is the wife of bath. I do think other characters would agree with the ideas she expresses in the tale and the prologue.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
11/11/2015 08:35:04 pm
Q: The prioress acted nothing like she was supposed to. From her accessories, to her "coy" smiles, no one seems to realize that she is not a proper nun. In reality, someone like the nun would not have joined the convent, so why is that where Chaucer has placed this character? What significance does this likely hold?
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
11/12/2015 07:53:29 am
Your opinion about women is interesting. I never thought about it that way. I do not know if that was his goal, but if it was it could make sense. Especially when considering how the Wife of Bath's husband was reading many stories about how women caused men to fall. However this could also be a coincidence. The improper nun is probably there to simply represent one of the many corruptions in the Church.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
11/12/2015 08:11:00 am
I believe the Prioress did not choose to join the convent based on religious reasons. I think Chaucer was displaying that during that time period many nuns had joined the convent for other reasons. The convent provided education and other resources that was not offered anywhere else so some women were attracted to the convent because of this. Families who could not afford a dowry also joined the convent out of convenience.
Reply
Holmes
11/13/2015 05:36:00 am
Even though the Prioress is not very "nun like" what about the wives travelling with the tradesmen? Although the Wife of Bath is not "typical," she is still realistic. What is it that the women are supposed to be?
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 09:41:44 am
At first reading your observation, I disagreed. I thought the fact that the two best people were men was merely a coincidence because these are the ideal positions to not be corrupt. Thinking about it deeper, the Prioress could have matched her stereotype and it accomplish the same goal. This is an interesting point.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 05:05:59 pm
I do not think Chaucer is trying to make women out to be the corrupted ones. I think that Chaucer made only the two people that were good men because there were so many men and only a few women. If Chaucer would have made two or even one of the "good" people women, there would be few corrupted women. Then this would take the opposite affect and make it look like Chaucer was saying women were less corrupted than men. This is merely because of the numbers.
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
11/12/2015 07:41:46 am
O: The Wife of Bath is clearly a somewhat religious figure. In her prologue she made many biblical allusions. She alluded to King Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, and other males who were married multiple times. However she made these allusions to justify her many marriages. She is also very promiscuous which is shown by how often she uses her "instrument".
Reply
Lauren Collins
11/12/2015 03:43:49 pm
Your commentary seems to make sense to me. Like you said, one apple can ruin the whole bunch. However, they are going on a pilgrim that is supposed to be religiously connected. Maybe your hypothesis is in reverse and the corrupt may find morals. I do not see this being the case and agree with you, but I just thought that was another possibility. In response to your question, I believe she chose the story to prove her point about the equality of women. It was her way of expressing what she believed.
Reply
Holmes
11/13/2015 07:42:56 am
Would the Knight be as likely to pay attention to an old lady standing along the side of the road? Even though knight's were meant to be chivalrous, what is more likely and more quickly to draw a man's attention?
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 05:10:19 pm
I had not thought of this, but it completely makes sense! Not only did the young women give the knight a reason to stop, but it also commented a lot on the ways of the knight which was important for later on in the tale. The knight is angry that he has to marry such an old woman, and we see with this part of the tale his real character. Although he is meant to be chivalrous, he wants the young, beautiful woman.
Destiny
11/20/2015 03:39:53 pm
Most men, no matter the age, will look at a beautiful young lady before they would an old hag. Men would help a young pretty girl on the side of the road before they would an old woman. Maybe she done this to play to men's lust for women
Reply
Hannah Ross
11/12/2015 07:47:42 am
O: I find that the closeness between the pardoner and the summoner is more than it seems. As Mrs. Holmes hinted at, they both are compensating with merriment and carefree attitudes in order to hide their homosexual tendencies towards one another.
Reply
Nora
11/12/2015 01:59:45 pm
I think the knight genuinely has learned that he needs to give his wife the freedom to choose for herself. The key to a happy life is a happy wife so he submits himself to whatever she wants.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
11/12/2015 07:31:53 pm
I don't believe that the knight changed at all. I believe in the moment of his decision, he was not very bright, and simply said "I really don't know what to do," and asked her to make the decision for him because he could not bring himself to pick the lesser of two evils. He just ended up being very lucky in the way that she took his answer because of a wonderful miss-communication.
Reply
Holmes
11/13/2015 07:47:25 am
I did not say they were homosexual, but referred to the fact that Chaucer does say of the Pardoner, that he could not tell if he "was a gelding or a mare." This makes the Pardoner certainly effeminate, and the tendency today and perhaps then was to make an assumption. You can make an inference as you like.
Reply
Kristen Denny
11/12/2015 07:53:17 am
GC: "The General Prologue" gave details about each character that would tell in the Canterbury tales. This gave the reader a description that would show the reader who the character really was and let them predict what their tale in the Canterbury Tales would be. They were in depth, particularly the wife of Bath's.
Reply
Sarah
11/12/2015 03:20:27 pm
To address your Q, I think Chaucer wanted there to be a general observation from a removed party. Not only would that prevent contradiction from the characters describing themselves, but it also prepares the reader for what they might expect to come through the tails--almost serving like a hook.
Reply
Holmes
11/13/2015 07:49:40 am
I agree with your observation. Well put.
Lauren Collins
11/12/2015 03:49:51 pm
Your question makes sense. However, I believe he described the individuals collectively within the prologue to set an underlying basis of how many were corrupt. This also sets the atmosphere of the group. Their individual prologue's will describe them better, but the generalization at the beginning gives the reader a start and an idea of the pilgrims. If they were described individually, we may not pick up on certain connections between them. Therefore, their array, attire, and condition were mentioned in relevance to the group.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
11/12/2015 07:19:22 pm
I agree that she had a high sex and did not hold sex as sacred as she likely could have, but I believe this has something to do with the tale she told. I believe that the Wife spoke from her heart with something that held a high significance to her life. When first reading, I could easily have seen the Wife's spirit inside the girl who got raped. After that point, any woman would just want control and not hold sex as highly as others might. She would obviously advise women to keep their virginity, but might have had this ruined for herself at a young age.
Reply
Holmes
11/13/2015 07:54:41 am
What is "high sex"? Do you find the Wife the to be the young girl who the knight took advantage of? I did not see that. I believe the story was told to demonstrate that not all men, or knights in this case, are as gentleman should be. Also, I think the Wife enjoys sex a wee bit too much to have had an unfortunate event happen to her like the young maiden she describes in her tale.
Jenny Glidewell
11/12/2015 08:07:26 am
Q: The majority of the religious figures in the Canterbury Tales are corrupt. Were the majority of all of the religious figures of this time period as corrupt as these?
Reply
Elizabeth
11/12/2015 02:40:22 pm
According to the background information on Chaucer, the Wife of Bath's Tale is one of the most ironical tales Chaucer penned about women considered as wives. It seems to me that he wasn't much interested in love, per say, but more in the dynamics of a married relationship. The Wife of Bath is obviously a very strong, confident woman, her time's equivalent of a feminist and the fact that Chaucer wrote a woman character in such a way may suggest that he believed women should have more power. He may not have been that interested in romantic love as in mushy, happily-ever-after type stories, but in love as in a relationship of mutual respect and power.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
11/12/2015 07:07:19 pm
While is must not have been incredibly uncommon to find corrupt religious leaders, it does not mean that they all were. In the news, you never hear about the good people who never do anything wrong in their jobs. You hear about the escaped prisoners, teachers who molest their students, and the car thieves. For this reason, Chaucer likely found it more influential to highlight the hypocrites that were closely involved with the church.
Reply
Kristen Denny
11/12/2015 08:24:31 pm
I do not believe that Chaucer necessarily saw the women as controlling but maybe that they were fighting for a more prominent role in society. They were typically supposed to be subservient to their husbands but did not truly have a voice.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 05:14:41 pm
This is an interesting thought about Chaucer. I think he is kind of fond of the Wife of Bath. His description of her, to me, sounds interested and understanding of her ways. I wonder what Chaucer's prologue and his tale is. Is he looking for romance as you say? Is he corrupted like many of the others?
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 08:54:09 am
Test
Reply
Nicole Rogers
11/17/2015 09:31:05 am
O-The Squire is portrayed as a youthful, fun boy untouched by the realities of being an adult and being a knight. His description is shown with white and red flowers showing his innocence and youthful passions. His dad, the Knight on the other hand, is a perfect knight that is in pain from the battles he has faced and the realities of life and war. These characters seem to be juxtaposed to show how the realities of life affect a person and how someone with the same genes can change overtime.
Reply
Destiny
11/20/2015 10:43:01 am
O: After reading i feel the Wife of Bath feels guilty for being the way she is with her marriages. She tries to justify her actions by making references to Solomon, Jacob, and Abraham. The wife leads people to believe that she does not care how she is judged, but she still tries to explain herself to those around her.
Reply
Leave a Reply. |
AuthorMrs. Holmes - AP ENG IV Archives
March 2016
Categories |