Now that you have completed the reading of this novel and have analyzed the ideas of aestheticism, hedonism, and Faustian agreements, I would like you to simply share your thoughts and opinions on the novel. Have a conversation with one another. Discuss comparative works. Your initial post needs to be a minimum of 150 words and you need to converse with at least two of your peers. Responses due by class Thursday.
33 Comments
Lauren Collins
3/2/2016 08:08:51 am
I believe that ‘The Picture of Dorian Gray’ is a very interesting, yet strange, novel that displayed specific themes and ideas. It seemed to me like the typical story of “be careful what you wish for”. Dorian Gray wished for something that unfortunately was part of his ruin. Like the Faustian agreement usually plays out, the good that Dorian thought eternal youth would bring him actually corrupted him in some form. Also, I do believe that the entire novel is a statement of Oscar Wilde’s. He was a firm believer in the aesthetic movement, and the novel shows this through many different quotes. Most of these quotes were from Basil, who I believe reflects Oscar himself. Basil was infatuated with Dorian and he made his art work for art’s sake. I’m not sure if it’s political criticism from Oscar Wilde, but it definitely is him sharing his thoughts. The ending may have been the most interesting part with the picture returning to its original state and Dorian changing into his true self. He is no longer under the mask of youth, but his soul that is corrupted begins to shine through. Unfortunately, it is after his death.
Reply
Hannah Ross
3/2/2016 05:05:35 pm
I like how you pointed out that the novel is in a way symbolic of Oscar Wilde's life. I see him reflected in multiple parts f the novel, but I don't see him in the characters or in the plot. I think that he used the novel as a criticism of people that go too far with lifestyles similar to his own.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
3/2/2016 05:06:30 pm
I do see a lot of Oscar Wilde in Basil too. I also find it funny that you pulled out the "be careful what you wish for" idea since the novel supposedly was not meant to have a moral. After I finished reading it, I thought the same kind of message was meant to be conveyed, and I am sure other people took it in different ways too. That kind of tells me that there isn't a real possibility for an aesthetic movement in literature since everything is open for its own interpretation.
Reply
Nora Skinner
3/2/2016 06:00:04 pm
Kind of going off of what Alyssa said, I like that you said "be careful what you wish for" because that's exactly what I was thinking too! When I think of that my mind goes to the story of King Midas. He wanted everything he touched to turn to gold. He thought that this would be a blessing, but actually it turned out to be a curse, because he turned his own daughter to gold. Like Midas, Dorian hurt himself and others he cared about because of his own curse.
Reply
Kristen Denny
3/2/2016 07:55:16 pm
I had thought of the same quote! It was definitely shown through the insanity that came over Dorian as a result of his wish. I had not made the connection between Basil and Oscar but it is definitely a possibility. Also, based off the idea that Oscar was a homosexual, through the display of admiration from Basil to Dorian throughout the novel this could also be supported.
Reply
Destiny Mabe
3/9/2016 03:59:57 pm
Now that you mention it, i can see the connections between Wilde and Basil. I don't know how i didn't see it before but now I do. I really enjoyed the ending because to me it was an unexpected way to end a book, but i liked how you pointed out that his innerself came out.
Reply
Nora Skinner
3/2/2016 04:04:31 pm
I really enjoyed the Picture of Dorian Gray. There is no doubt that the novel is definitely thought provoking. One thing I found particularly interesting was how deeply the novel that Lord Henry lent to Dorian affected him. Since Dorian had previously learned about the value of youth and unintentionally wished away his soul, he really took the ideas in the book that he read to heart. He began to live a hedonistic life style like all the characters in the novel did. In a way all of Dorian's problems began after he finished the novel and realized that he could exploit his youth. I think that Dorian's corruption is really thanks to Lord Henry. If he had not caused Dorian to worry about growing old and if he had not given him the book, perhaps Dorian would have lived a happy life. Lord Henry is really like the "devil" in Dorian's Faustian contract.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
3/2/2016 04:51:47 pm
I agree that Henry brought about Dorian's demise. Before he entered the picture, Dorian was perfectly happy as Basil's friend, and he never even seemed to have previously thought about how much he would age in the future. I also didn't think that much to look into the book Dorian became infatuated with! I just assumed it just represented the spiral he went through as he had it bound in every color of the rainbow to "match his moods."
Reply
Hannah Ross
3/2/2016 05:00:34 pm
I think its interesting that you point out that Dorian really began to fall down the slippery slope of a life devoted to pleasure after he read the book. I agree that Dorian's corruption is due to Lord Harry's influence. However, Dorian took it to a level that Lord Harry never did.
Reply
Sarah Guiles
3/2/2016 06:46:29 pm
To echo all of you, yes Henry played a major roll in giving Dorian a introduction to his hedonistic style of life, but everything Dorian did can only be pushed back on him.
Kaitlyn Denny
3/2/2016 06:46:25 pm
I also thought of Lord Henry as the Devil. He pulled Dorian away from a life of good and innocence. It is possible that Dorian could have led a better life. He could have never been driven to kill a man or leave Sibyl. Lord Henry was his temptation. He tried to stay away but he could not. I found it a shame that his life seemed to go down hill so fast.
Reply
Kristen Denny
3/2/2016 07:59:14 pm
I like that you compared Henry to the Devil. I think that their could be a foreshadowing of the corruption that would come to Dorian after he met Henry. Basil had told Henry that he did not want him to meet Dorian because he would ruin him. At first the reader may think of this as just a selfish act but looking back I see it differently.
Reply
Destiny Mabe
3/9/2016 04:10:34 pm
At first I thought Henry was the devil, and that Dorian was going to make a deal with him, but the more I read, I knew Henry was not the devil himself, just maybe the devils advocate. Henry's guidance defiantly lead to Dorian's change of character from the beginning to the end of the novel.
Reply
Alyssa Hagerman
3/2/2016 04:36:55 pm
“The Picture of Dorian Gray” was a novel that could truly be considered “timeless.” I found myself relating with not ever wanting to lose my youth, and that is something people take drastic measures to avoid. It also alluded to some social issues that are still present today, like homosexuality. It was easy to see Oscar Wilde in the novel through the beliefs and movements that lay right below the surface. He was an advocate for things like the aesthetic movement and believed that it was enough to just find joy and beauty in art. Unfortunately, I couldn’t quite pinpoint so much of this joy in “The Picture of Dorian Gray.” In fact, it was not very joyous during any points of the story. During the time that the protagonist was happiest, it was very obvious that he was just happy for superficial reasons related to Sibyl, which also failed to draw any sympathy from me. The only thing I did enjoy about the novel was that I was able to perfectly predict Dorian’s turning into the ugly old man if the painting were to be destroyed. The biggest thing I have learned from Oscar Wilde and “The Picture of Dorian Gray is that I am not a big fan of novels concerning Victorian society.
Reply
Elizabeth
3/2/2016 05:05:20 pm
It would be interesting to see "The Picture of Dorian Gray" applied to modern times with the widespread use of cosmetics and plastic surgery to maintain one's youthful look. Dorian's youth was an open door to a path of deceit and immorality, and I wonder if Oscar Wilde would still retain the same opinion about beauty in today's society.
Reply
Sarah Guiles
3/2/2016 06:50:34 pm
Oh, Alyssa, but Victorian society is SO great!
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
3/2/2016 06:51:16 pm
It is crazy how people go to such far lengths to keep their youth. So much money is spent on botox and face lifts. Even boob jobs or tummy tucks. I would like to keep my youth but I also know that it will have to go away at some point because it is simply a part of life. I hear that a lot of people become depressed in their thirties because that is when people tend to realize that they are settled in their job, marriage, or daily routine. They realize that their youth is gone as well as a lot of the excitement that used to be in their lives. While it is sad, it is also good to grow up and become more wise.
Reply
Lauren Collins
3/2/2016 08:27:00 pm
The book is very timeless in the aspect of eternal youth. Everyone wants to be young forever, and the book does a good job of portraying this. You mentioned a good point about art being a joyous form of expression, yet the novel was the total opposite of anything joyful. Maybe the irony was intentional if Oscar Wilde was trying to convey criticism. Overall, I had some of the same thoughts you did!
Reply
Hannah Ross
3/2/2016 04:54:57 pm
At the beginning of Dorian Gray, I really disliked the novel. I did not enjoy the lengthy periods of dialogue and long descriptions of events. But as the plot revealed itself I was actually interested. I found the dynamic between the three main characters to be curious, with Harry being the main and most aggressive, Basil being a semi-passive and more compassionate figure, and Dorian being caught in the middle of the two. Together, Harry and Basil are like a devil and an angel on Dorian's shoulders. We can see this dynamic repeated in many other novels and movies. Furthermore, the relationship between Dorian and his portrait. He uses the painting of himself as constant validation of his actions; as long as the painting remains ugly and he remains beautiful then he has done nothing so wrong. He becomes consumed with the painting, always have to check on it and question it, as if it were its own person. This reminds me of the relationship between the evil queen and the mirror in snow white. The mirror, just like the picture, continuously reminds the queen, and Dorian, that she is the most beautiful. If and when that dynamic between the two changes then the queen, or Dorian, must intervene.
Reply
Elizabeth
3/2/2016 05:22:16 pm
I really like the comparison you made between Basil and Harry and the tiny angel and devil that sit on your shoulders. I too felt that Basil was just trying to keep Dorian on the straight and narrow (no pun intended), attempting to figure out what was bothering him and encouraging him to live a more moral life. Harry on the other hand preached a life of pleasure and told Dorian to give in to temptation, which is exactly what the Devil would say.
Reply
Nora Skinner
3/2/2016 06:06:51 pm
It was an interesting comparison to make between the Evil Queen and Dorian! Both are very self-obsessed and worship youth...quite obvious similarities - I'm surprised I didn't think of it myself. I agree, Basil and Henry are definitely like the angel and devil on Dorian's shoulders. However I think Basil should have done more to fulfill his 'angel' role. He wasn't very proactive in attempting to help Dorian make the right decisions, he was just kind of there to warn him of the dangers of his actions.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
3/2/2016 08:48:43 pm
That is a wonderful comparison! I had thought about Dorian's nature being influenced partially by both Basil and Lord Henry Wotton, but I had not thought of them as angel and devil. It makes perfect sense! That being said, do you think Wilde is saying that the devil will win since ultimately in this analogy, he did? Do you think Wilde is advocating against allowing the devil to win or saying that is is ineluctable?
Reply
Sarah Guiles
3/2/2016 06:41:12 pm
You know that saying, "don't judge a book by its cover?" Well, don't judge a book by its cover, or if referencing The Picture of Dorian Gray, don't judge a person by what they look like—whether the ugly is covering the beautiful or the beauty is a mask for the horrendous.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
3/2/2016 08:08:19 pm
I agree with what you said! I like that you said that this book is like the internal struggle of mankind. Good versus evil does always seem to come up in novels! Just like Foster said, there is really only one story! I agree with you that Dorian's inner struggle was that he valued beauty to highly and believed that his only assets were his looks. I believe every one can learn from this book and understand the moral of this story, that looks are not everything and you should not only value looks in yourself or anyone else.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
3/2/2016 08:54:48 pm
You bring up a good point. It was Dorian's horrid mistakes that ruined the painting and led to Dorian's demise. If it was not for these mistakes, the picture would be clean, and Dorian would not have stabbed it. On the other hand, it would have still aged and could have made Dorian just as mad to see himself age. Therefore, was it Dorian's constant mistakes that lead to his death, or would he have killed himself through the painting just by aging alone? I think this discussion point will lead to a better understanding of what Oscar Wilde's main goal of the story was.
Reply
Kaitlyn Denny
3/2/2016 06:42:49 pm
I found this book to be quite interesting. I thought that it was going to be boring at first but it really was not that hard to read. I could sense that Dorian was going to crack but I never saw him killing Basil. I felt that that was wild and the fact that his old friend helped to dispose of the body was even crazier. I am still wondering what was on the paper that convinced Dorian's old friend to help. I figured that it was blackmail of some sort. Before the novel actually began the introduction said that this book was used to support the belief that Oscar Wilde was homosexual. It helped put Oscar in jail and be released a few years before he died. Maybe the blackmail had to do with an inappropriate act that happened between the two of them. Their relationship was never fully discussed, the book just said that they had talked at one point. Maybe they had an affair of some sort and the guy did not want everyone to know what had happened. I could also sense that Dorian was going to kill himself in the end. I felt the tension building up to it and as soon as he said he was going to destroy the portrait I knew that he was going to kill himself. It was almost like a horror movie that I have seen before. Except in the movie it was a mirror that would kill people. It is weird but that is what happened. The mirror would play mind tricks on you and if someone would try to break it, something would happen to prevent it. Whether their weapon would end up across the room or they would end up injuring themselves. At the end of the movie one of the two people trying to monitor and break the mirror died. This book was great but also crazy. I felt that Dorian was still immature and did not understand love though because of what happened with Sibyl. It was upsetting that she killed herself after basically ruining her possible career in acting to be with Dorian.
Reply
Kristen Denny
3/2/2016 07:44:32 pm
"The Picture of Dorian Gray" was an interesting novel. At first, I was not very into it but over time it started to interest me. From my background research I had discovered that Oscar Wilde had been imprisoned for sodomy that was prevalent in this novel. As I read, I could definitely see this between the characters, especially Basil and Dorian. Also, throughout the novel there would be dropped hints that showed Dorian's sexuality. For instance, when Alan was blackmailed into disposing of Basil's dead body. The reader could infer by this instance and the mentioning of tension between him and other men he used to have close relationships with. Those men grew to always avoid him in public.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
3/2/2016 08:00:19 pm
I like that you did background research! It is very interesting that Oscar Wilde was imprisoned for sodomy! I would believe that he was guilty of it from reading this book! Those ideals are very prevalent throughout this novel. I agree with you that Dorian's sexuality was very obvious! I like that you said inferred that that is what Dorian blackmailed Alan with. I didn't think of that but I can see how that would make sense! Perhaps Lord Henry is what turned his sexuality and lead him down a path that at that time was seen to be sinful. Maybe Oscar Wilde feels that he is like Dorian Gray because he was accused of sodomy.
Reply
Jenny Glidewell
3/2/2016 07:47:51 pm
I liked The Picture of Dorian Gray. I thought it was a good book and it challenged me to think outside the box. I enjoyed seeing the differences between each character and seeing how Dorian Gray went into a downward spiral and seemed to go crazy. I believe that the Faustian Agreement that could be seen in this novel was literally one. I believe that Lord Henry was the Devil and Dorian Gray sold his soul to him. Dorian Gray was innocent and pure before he met Lord Henry and was corrupted by him. Lord Henry taught him to value his beauty over anything else. His sins and this pact with Lord Henry is what led to his death. After Dorian killed Basil I realized that he was on a downward spiral that would soon end in his own death. I saw Basil as being like a godly figure trying to help Dorian and put him on a good path but Lord Henry wanted to control him and he wanted to see him miserable. Lord Henry encouraged him to commit the sins he was committing and this eventually led him to death.
Reply
Lauren Collins
3/2/2016 08:32:33 pm
I can see Henry being similar to the Devil. For one thing, he was the "poster child" of hedonism, especially by the comments and persuasions he gave to Dorian. He indulged in many sinful things and influenced others to do the same, so I think you had an accurate analysis. It definitely was a downward spiral for everyone in the novel, except Henry. I believe you make a good point to be challenged.
Reply
Nicole Rogers
3/2/2016 08:44:58 pm
I thoroughly enjoyed The Picture of Dorian Gray. It is one of those books that does not allow you to read and just read for the enjoyment; the book itself makes you think critically. It makes you ask questions and put yourself in Dorian’s position. What would I give to be eternally youthful and beautiful? Is beauty all there really is in life? Especially being ready by a young person, it makes me ask myself, is aging really so bad that people would sell their soul so as to avoid it? I would personally like to believe that although life lines that come up may not be as appealing as some would like, with age comes more beauty. You may not win Miss America, but the beauty from the inside has become so wise and aged so gracefully that this is drastically more beautiful than any age defying skin.
Reply
Elizabeth
3/3/2016 05:55:23 am
"The Picture of Dorian Gray" was an interesting story to say the least. Creepy and deranged would probably be more accurate descriptors, and although the plot was thought-provoking, I think the story could have been told in a much less long-winded way. Much of the story to me was Dorian vacillating between living a life of pleasure filled with sinful decisions, or becoming a more pure man and clean the dark spots off of his soul. His indecisiveness reminded me of Hamlet, as well as Victor since all three characters are constantly in limbo over decisions. After reading all of the other comments about how Henry represents the Devil and Basil an angel or God, I wondered if Oscar Wilde was religious. The novel itself seemed to sympathize more with temptation and the Devil, and since an author is represented by his work, I wondered if Wilde had a disdain for religion. After a bit of research though, I found the exact opposite. Wilde was a devoted Anglican Christian and Catholic, as he was baptized into both religions, and he had a healthy respect for Christianity throughout his entire life.
Reply
Destiny Mabe
3/9/2016 03:49:56 pm
Overall I would have to say that ‘The Picture of Dorian Grey’ is a wonderful book. I felt that it demonstrated the time period very well. It showed how society was like for different classes by showing how Sybil lived compared to the way Dorian and the other women lived. It also showed the reader what was expected of the men and women of this time. The men was supposed to be nice and respectable men of status, while the women were meant to be the perfect hostess and have a perfect face. Even though I enjoyed the story, I did find it to be a bit generic. It was a typical story, told in an unusual way. The ending was also unexpected. He couldn’t handle himself or the guilt of his life so he tried to destroy the one thing that showed all his guilt, but in the end he destroyed himself. I thought overall that the book was a warning as to what would happen if we didn’t age, to me this book shows that youth is only meant to be a stage of life, not a way of life. It is meant to be outgrown.
Reply
Leave a Reply. |
AuthorMrs. Holmes - AP ENG IV Archives
March 2016
Categories |